A tale of two repos......

[mims&pip]

Hi all,

We thought we had identified our onward purchase - a rural, period cottage with a bit of land in SW Wales (property A) - and our offer had been accepted, only for another period property (property B) we'd previously been interested in when we were not in a position to proceed, to come back onto the market :roll:

So, armed with the knowledge it was a repossession, we set off to view property B.

A very attractive cottage, condition-wise it was less than ideal, having deteriorated considerably since the EA's pics were taken. We'd obviously been expecting issues, what with it being a repo - and at a bargain price which is always enticing! - but it was quite bad. Nothing we couldn't handle though, having (mostly) DIYed several previous houses, ranging from Tudor, through Georgian thatched, to Arts & Crafts (curiously, none of which were listed)

We were told - as with many rural Welsh houses - that the water supply is private, from a well or tank on land belonging to a (distant) neighbour and we believed this wasn't an issue. We did attempt to speak to the closest neighbour on more than one occasion, but no-one was home. The EAs offered up the usual "it's a repo, we have very little info" card.

Despite this we made an offer, which was accepted after a short wait on the proviso we exchange within fourteen days as we are cash buyers.

Anyway, once back 'home' in the West Midlands we successfully contacted another neighbour who informed us they had fallen out with the other neighbour........over the water issue and that they had eventually put in a borehole at a cost of £10k to avoid further problems. They advised we do the same should the property become ours. Moreover, there was talk of the existing pipework being ancient, lead and costly to replace.

Having read Joce's thread on the subject and begun researching online, we are starting to question our sanity!

The land surrounding the (detached) cottage is fairly large, but access onto the site is poor and we fear this will ramp up the cost. Not to mention there being no guarantee of successful drilling - although it being wet Wales and the fact a neighbour has succeeded should inspire some confidence, I suppose!

We have a healthy budget for the work, but obviously hadn't bargained for the borehole scenario :shock:

To add to our dilemma, another rural repossession (property C) in SW Wales has appeared on my radar. Very similar price, slightly more recently built, but without the water supply issues. It also looks to need far less major work to restore to its former glory, whereas the other could potentially be a (very lovely, characterful) money pit. The downside? The proximity of an A-road

We plan to view this one ASAP, and appreciate there will always be a compromise.....or three, lol, but obviously if we decide to extricate ourselves from our current purchase we need to act quickly and I really can't choose which is the 'better' option.

Property B is in a slightly nicer location overall than property C.

FWIW, Pip favours our current choice, but I'm being practical (for once) in thinking the latest find is the sensible choice.

So, can the collective wisdom of the Period Property forum offer any sage advice please?

Thanks in advance,

Mims x

 

[Flyfisher]

Property B is in a slightly nicer location overall than property C

Dilapidations can be fixed, boreholes can be drilled but nothing can be done about the location.

Not so much 'sage advice' - more the bleedin' obvious really :roll:

 

[mims&pip]

Thanks for that, Flyfisher

Yep, I know it's all about location, location, location, lol! However, everywhere we've viewed - and there's been rather a lot as we've been searching on and off for eighteen months - has had at least one compromise. We are particularly conscious of not wanting to buy another gorgeous property in a less than perfect location, as our current home has been blighted by noisy neighbours, despite being detached on a quiet lane with a quarter of an acre garden that surrounds the house.

I don't want to drip feed, but for reasons of privacy I failed to mention in my opening post that property B also has a potential noise issue......but it's not traffic and is likely to only affect us at certain times :wink:

I guess the attraction of property C is that with very little expense (less than £50k) - but the usual many years' worth of physical effort - we would have a beautiful period home, whereas you could throw many tens of thousands at property B and not see the rewards (although of course that's the way it often is with our beloved characterful, period homes). We've spent the past twenty years devoting every spare moment to the restoration of seven homes - several of which were in a ruinous state when we took them on - and being able to 'take it eas(ier)y' for once is tempting.....

Don't think that'll happen though as we tend not to take the easy option :lol:

Mims x

 

[Flyfisher]

With seven homes in 20 years under your belt I'm sure you know all about the compromises involved - better than me with my paltry four over 34 years anyway!

I wasn't really suggesting that location is the most important thing (though I personally think it's right up there), more that it's something that can't be changed (which of course you know!) so if there is a compromise involved (and there usually is) then it's one you have to be prepared to live with. Or move yet again!

Good luck with your deliberations.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Hello pip and mims! So interesting to read your dilemma ( and I am SO sorry not to have caught up with you before now).

All three properties are sounding lovely. How fab to be going to Wales! I wouldn’t be worrying about a private water supply if it’s Wales. If you have a spare 15-20 k and love the location and charm of property B significantly more than C, then pick B. My borehole plan didn’t work out because we’re on a hilltop and the rock is porous and the rainfall very low. Only the east coast of Suffolk has less rain than here. We were advised that any borehole we drilled would give a patchy supply!

I think you really have to weigh up what’s important to you now after so much work. I know that personally I will never again have the energy or will to do another Beacon Cottage. If I have to move later on in life then definitely no more projects! But I don’t regret this one! Even when I’m having to wee in the garden and wash at the tennis club I don’t regret buying this place. In every other respect, it’s right for me. The no neighbours thing is a massive deal for us, sounds like it is for you too! And no road is also very high on the list!

There’s no perfect, as you rightly say it’s always a compromise wherever you pick. We have the water issue and also Grantham as the nearest town which isn’t especially nice. But, I can deal with those things (London is just one hour away by train) You have to figure out which ones are easier to deal with!

Then again, I think mentally we do tend to make the best of things and problem solve! It’s amazing what you get used to and stop seeing. It sounds like all three have a real charm! But if you can face another big project, I’d go for your second!

 

[MikeG]

There's obviously only one criteria you should be using when judging which property to buy: which one will make the most interesting and long-winded renovation thread on this forum? :lol:

 

[JoceAndChris]

There's obviously only one criteria you should be using when judging which property to buy: which one will make the most interesting and long-winded renovation thread on this forum? :lol:

Quite so. A whole book of threads please Mims! With lots of frilly, girly tales of decorations!

 

[88v8]

I put thirty years' work into our previous house, and left it behind because of .... the location.

'A' road? Faugh!

Depends perhaps, whether this will be your forever house.

Ivor

 

[mims&pip]

Joce, thank you so much for posting......your input is always hugely appreciated At this moment we are still very much leaning towards property B - it is extremely charming (if rather cosy!), with lots of period features and an interesting past that warrants further investigation. Ideally we would like to try to secure it for a little less than we have currently offered to compensate for the water issue which we were not aware of at the outset. Being somewhat experienced in the field of restoration, we are not intending to have a survey, but we have now made contact with the company that installed the borehole at the nearby property and plan to meet with them to discuss our options over the next few days* They offer alternatives too, so borehole issues wouldn't necessarily equate to the end of the road for us with regard to this particular property :wink:
Don't worry, there will certainly be plenty of frilly, girly decorating tales to come, whichever property we end up with :lol:

*Once we have purchased a new-to-us Landy as we're currently sans vehicle!

Flyfisher, thanks again - yep, they all have compromises! Some we've viewed have had unworkable land, some we ruled out for being too far above sea level, some had too many neighbours in close proximity :roll: BTW, when I referred to twenty years and seven properties that wasn't quite correct - we've actually had seven in total, but spanning closer to thirty years having purchased our first in our very early twenties and we'll both be 51 this year :wink:

Mike, thank you - never fear, a(nother) long, protracted restoration project is winging its way to this forum right now!

Ivor, great to hear from you! Yep, this one will hopefully be the last, so need to get it right Having previously lived in an extremely handsome thatched village house in Wiltshire that we sold due to its location - and associated noise/vibrating - on the A30, we are understandably nervous about anything remotely close to busy roads. I don't believe the one in question (property C) is excessively busy, plus the road is tucked away at the rear beyond the deep garden, whilst the house itself fronts onto a lane......but we'd still be aware of its presence........

Thanks again, all, for your thoughts!

Mims x

 

[livias]

Despite this we made an offer, which was accepted after a short wait on the proviso we exchange within fourteen days as we are cash buyers

And it had deteriorated between the Estate Agents photos and you seeing it? There is obviously not a rush of potential buyers so do not be pressurised into exchanging quickly. Take your time to make the right decision. What a nice situation to be in

 

[steveb]

Just one thought - if the neighbours have fallen out over a water pipe, does the "other neighbour" have any other leverage over your property in any other way that could make your life awkward - rights of way that you have over each other's land, rights for other services, etc.

I spend enough time in proximity with unreasonable people at work, I would try and avoid doubling up by having a problem at home as well. As such I would go out of my way to contact the "other neighbour" and find out what he/she is really like, and whether you are destined to fall out with each other in a hurry. And if you are, could you handle it

Side thought - re the borehole, could you share the one recently drilled, or is the physical situation such as that is a non-starter?

-Steve

 

[mims&pip]

Livias, yes it had.....there has been one previous buyer withdraw and the property was originally marketed by this EA in the autumn. However, I believe it has been previously tenanted and some of the photos the EA used possibly date to when it was being marketed to let - I say this as some rooms had two photos, one furnished and another not. It does seem to have deteriorated quite drastically from the photos.

That said, I appreciate that property can fall into disrepair fairly swiftly once abandoned. A neighbour in Wiltshire lived for the most part in Chelsea, only returning to his 'rural idyll' for the occasional weekend or longer break. On one occasion he was absent for a few months, during which time his thatched roof developed a leak, the property suffered burst pipes over Winter, rats entered the property and the reasonably large garden morphed into a jungle. On his eventual return Pip, who went round with a Hetty vacuum (our neighbour had no vacuum whatsoever :shock: ), said the place looked as though World War 3 - or the plague - had broken out!

We've been in discussions today with the borehole peeps and they have looked at streetview/pics we've sent across. The good news is we have identified an area with good access that they think will be a suitable location for drilling/siting of the borehole.....once again, assuming water is in good supply.

Steve, mmmm, you're right of course - last thing we want is a bolshy, PITA neighbour who makes our lives difficult by refusing access etc. There are no rights of way in favour of either property, thankfully, but I wholeheartedly agree that regardless of that we don't want to be living close(-ish) to someone unreasonable!

The property with the borehole is some distance away and the geography probably wouldn't allow for it to be shared.

The only other thing we need to look into is the septic tank - not literally, lol :lol: - as the good old EAs were unable to confirm if that is shared with him. We did ask the EA if they have his contact details, which they apparently don't. I guess the other neighbour - the one who has fallen out with him - will have his phone no, so we'll get that from her. When we visit early next week we will go out of our way to pin him down and check him out. Googling his name, which we got from the land registry, has yielded no results. He has a holiday cottage on his land and we tried to contact him through sites where he advertises, but no joy. Online reviews all refer to a helpful owner, so he can't be that bad......

Mims x

 

[Socksitis]

Hi,
it may be that the folks with the first watering hole and the other neighbours have fallen out with may be alright people. The water may not be the issue you consider it to be.

 

[Flyfisher]

Despite this we made an offer, which was accepted after a short wait on the proviso we exchange within fourteen days as we are cash buyers

And it had deteriorated between the Estate Agents photos and you seeing it? There is obviously not a rush of potential buyers so do not be pressurised into exchanging quickly. Take your time to make the right decision. What a nice situation to be in

I'd second that and would personally be somewhat suspicious about any seller insisting on exchange within two weeks because it would make me think they could be hiding something and don't want you to have enough time to fully survey the property, carry out the relevant searches, etc. So being rushed could be a big risk.

Of course there is risk (on both sides) of things falling through before exchange and it's up to the buyer to decide whether the risk is acceptable, but everything is negotiable and if you don't like a condition then simply don't accept it and make a counter offer. No one can force conditions, they can only refuse to accept them, so it's just part of the negotiating process.

 

[Flyfisher]

Hi,
it may be that the folks with the first watering hole and the other neighbours have fallen out with may be alright people. The water may not be the issue you consider it to be.

Yes, might be best to contact the neighbours directly if there are any shared utilities or other similar issues.

It might be worth checking with your local water authority about borehole regulations though, especially shared ones. I think I recall a change to the law not so long ago concerning the sharing of mains water between different properties - basically it was made illegal, meaning that every property must have their own meter. Obviously metering would not apply to a borehole but there might be a sharing issue. I also recall that Joce has mentioned that her local water authority has to regularly inspect her borehole to ensure water quality and mandated the the installation of some purification equipment (Joce, please correct me if I'm wrong about this), in which case how would this be handled with a shared borehole? I don't know the answers but I would be asking the local water authority if there are any potential issues.

Similarly, the septic tank. If it is shared then there should ideally be a clear understanding about sharing the maintenance costs. I would guess that installing a new septic tank would be far cheaper than drilling a borehole so worst case this might not be a big problem, especially if budgeted for, but it would again be worthwhile checking with the local water authority about the latest regulations as I'm not sure that 'period' septic tanks are approved these days, based on my observation that some local new build houses near us have had some sort of septic tanks installed that include some sort of 'powered processing' within them.

Sorry to raise more questions than answers - I'm sure any such issues can be overcome but forewarned is forearmed!

 

[JoceAndChris]

Yes you’re right FF! What a memory! The local council as I remember - not Anglian water. They were concerned. He found the very worst type of E. coli in our well which amazed me as both myself, my husband, our family and all guests had always been fine. I have to say I was and am very skeptical about that test. He had no vested interest in telling me the well contained E. coli however. He recommended we buy a bacterial water filtration system but he could make no specific recommendations as to supplier. We put one in and and are still fine.

All of that is very much by the by for Pip and Mims, who have some difficult decision making to do.

With Mims bubbly charm I’m sure relations with anyone could be good! Some people just have a knack of falling out with others!

 

[Owain]

The only other thing we need to look into is the septic tank - not literally, lol :lol: -....

You probably should look into the septic tank, as it's going to be your septic tank and you'll form an intimate and ongoing relationship with it, and especially find where the outflow goes. A borehole can supply water (and save you water rates) but if you don't have an Environment Agency (or the Welsh equivalent?) -compliant means of disposal of sewage you'll be up to your armpits in the smelly stuff quite literally.