A radiator question

[Moo]

Well, two actually.

The first is about quality:
I'm in the process of ordering a couple of new radiators and am baffled by the difference in prices. On sites like Screwfix and Wickes I could buy the same size radiator for under £50 or over £100.
Is it a case of 'you gets what you pay for' ? Are there some makes that are a guarantee of high quality? Are there any I should avoid?

And the second is about pay-back time:
So far we're only replacing radiators that are in an inconvenient place (our urgent need for bookshelves means that we have to free up a lot of wall-space), but we're wondering whether it might be sensible to replace them all, on the grounds that new ones would be much more efficient than the old single-panel ones that we've inherited.

The plumber will be coming some time next week, so I've got to have made a decision and ordered all the new rads as a matter of urgency!

 

[plasticpigeon]

I can't see how changing the radiators would change the efficiency of your system. If new radiators were chosen, they might be more effective at transferring heat from the water to the room because they are not a dirty inside or have a larger surface area which would mean they could give the required heat output with a lower water temperature in and out (same temperature difference). This might make the boiler work a bit more efficiently. However I would generally think that if the radiators are sufficient to heat the room with your present system, then I can't see why they would need changing. You could always flush them out to make sure that they are clean inside if the system is being drained anyway. That is my 2 pence worth anyway.

 

[Onetap]

Pressed steel radiators are all much the same, so far as I know. I can't remember who made the last ones I bought; maybe Quinn.

They usually get dented and scratched by couriers, so you should check them on arrival and reject any that are damaged. Beware of signing for 'Delivery in good condition', when the items are wrapped.
I prefer to go and get them myself.

Changing radiators won't affect significantly the efficiency; you may get more heat from a particular size, or you may be able to get the same heat output at lower flow temperatures by increasing the area or getting ones with convector fins on the back.

 

[Moo]

Oh, goody.
That means I can get a couple of the Screwfix/Wickes bargains and rely on the draining-down/flushing-through to sort out the old ones.

If only everything else could be as simple!

 

[DJH]

Similar size convector radiators, those that have fins on the back, will generally give you more output than the same size single panel radiator because of the fins on the back which increase the area of confection. If you are happy with the sizes of the radiators you are going to change, then carry on and replace them with new convector ones the same size. That way you won't have to alter your pipework too much.
If you want smaller ones because they suit your room requirements then you can do that with a smaller convector radiator because it will give the same output as a larger single panel will.

Heat up time in the room will be shortened because of the air passing over the fins on the back.

If your heating system needs (not because you've been told that that's a good thing to do) draining and flushing then that's an indicator that something could be wrong elsewhere either in the initial installation such as the circulating pump in the wrong place and either sucking air in through leaking valves or through the expansion pipe. Conversely it could well be pumping water back into your feed and expansion tank through the expansion pipe both of which could introduce fresh water into you system which in turn can lead to rust and sediment building up and depositing itself at the bottom of the radiators.

Not being personal but do you get a build up of air at all? In your radiators I mean.............

Doug

PS I don't mean to be gloomy or despondent but get your plumber to check it out. I've heard this flushing out business can be quite profitable and, at the end f it, there's no real way of checking out tat it's worked unless you take of every radiator etc etc.....

 

[Moo]

So, if the old radiators are singles, with one row of fins at the back, and I replace some of them with smaller doubles (like two singles back-to- back) I shouldn't be losing too much heat?
And I won't bother with flushing.
But my builder says that all three new rads should be done at the same time, because it will involve draining the system. Is that right?

 

[robgil]

Yes it will need draining down, you can run a cleaner through the system before filling it and adding inhibitor.
I would also calculate the size and output of the new rads according to the room size and layout, just in case you can better what is already there or the previous fitter didnt bother to do this in the first place.

 

[robgil]

Just to add , how old is the system? The one in our rented cottage is quite old and was installed by a muppet, anything would be an improvement over what is here already.

I have never seen the stat installed in the only room in the house that does not have a radiator in it, the back hall where we hang our coats right next to a large , single paned glass door' :shock: so this room will always be a lot colder than the rest of the house, surely this will mean the stat does not know the true temperature within the heated part of the house and will call for heat when it is not needed. Our oil consumption is ridiculous. I cant wait to get our place finished.

 

[DJH]

Yes Moo you will get more output from double convector radiators but don't be fooled into thinking that you get twice the output because they are twice the size. It's quite easy to work out the heat outputs if you can either get hold of or look up on line the manufacturers information and sizing charts. If you can do that just make sure that you don't replace your single panel with a too small a double one.

Your builder is right . It will be much easier to drain down and do the work in one hit as I expect you will need some pipes moved a bit to suit the smaller rads. You don't really want to be draining down too often as it introduces fresh oxygenated water which can hasten corrosion. Do you know if you have a corrosion inhibitor in your system at the moment? If not get your man to chuck in some Fernox or other inhibitor. It will help in the long run........

Doug

Want any ironing done anyone.. :lol: :lol:

You've done it again Rob......... I'm too slow at typing.... :lol:

That's good advice Rob. Must dig out my Mears calculator.

 

[robgil]

Doug I ttype with one finger on each hand, I cannot look at the screen either when I type as I have to look at the key pad, on the plus side thats my excuse for my poor spelling and punctuation.

 

[DJH]

Fingers, fingers!!! I'm all thumbs myself....

 

[robgil]

I can use my thumb for the space bar with a stretch , but it slows me down too much.

 

[88v8]

The only rads for a period property.... cast iron, with brass valves ... unless you are hiding them behind covers of course.
The 4-column and more so 6-column cast-iron rads also give a greater output for the wall space they occupy.

Inhibitor in the system... nor an optional extra. Essential, unless you want the system to clog up and the boiler heat exchanger to fail and the rads to rust through.
Must be the correct concentration of inhibitor. calculate the total volume of water in the system.

If you ever have to bleed your rads after the initial process of removing air from the system, then te system is faulty. The most common fault is insufficient or no inhibitor. So many plumbers, so many bodgers.

Ivor

Rad cover for modern rad. Cover open, winter

Cover closed, summer.

Various old iron rads, installed by me.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Ivor, I hope the people that bought your last house appreciated the level of detail you went to to make it so nice.

 

[Moo]

You're absolutely right, PP, but I'm afraid that this little house will have to make do with bog-standard Wickes's.

I was a proper purist in our last house and drove miles in a hired van to get the genuine reclaimed article, and then to a remote rural factory where they sandblasted and powder-coated them. The poor builders really didn't enjoy heaving four of them up to the top floor.
These days I seem to have neither the money nor the energy to repeat the process.

 

[philpjuk100]

When I had a new boiler fitted I was told the system would need "hot flushing" This is done with banging the radiators and pipes with a fist and a special cordless device,this cost me a couple of radiators which leaked after this rough treatment."we have some in the van shall we fit them?" I had a trip to screwfix,bought some new ones (quite cheap) and fitted them during their lunch break.

 

[plasticpigeon]

I am the same, I bought the best cheap rads I could find. I got Quinn in the end, as they don't have a seam at the top so can be fitted with a "round top" upwards without the horrible grilles that I hate so much. Fitting beautiful radiators in a little terrace is a bit like fitting wood panelling or marble fireplaces. They are beautiful features but perhaps out of place in a humble terrace (even though your humble terrace in London probably cost the same as a Manor house in the North of England!!!)

 

[Sonyaclegg]

Ivor, did you make the rad cover yourself or did you buy it? if so, where from. It's lovely

 

[lou]

Lovely covers! And the column rads are nice. Where are they from and, what's an inhibitor when it's at home?

 

[DJH]

Yes, I agree plastic, it looks really well. I'm ashamed to admit it but in an earlier life during the late sixties and seventies I ripped out and I mean ripped out, many such radiators, old sanitaryware, taps and fittings. In my defence I wasn't 'educated' then but I do bitterly regret it looking back. My stepfather used to save everything he could and he even had a pal in the dump who would save back things people had thrown out for him.

I was once instructed to break up a very large porcelain bath in a stately home near where I used to live (the Forge would know it well) as the county council had the house and used it for further education purposes. Another admission here was that at the time it seemed fun but very dangerous. This was before the days of H&S and we had no glasses or gloves. :shock:

I was interrupted writing this when friends called around and we've been busy eating and drinking so it might look out of sequence!! :wink:

Doug from happy Tipperary