1930s house renovation - hall & kitchen floor ident plea

[stakk]

We are renovating our 1930s house and have discovered this flooring in the hall and kitchen. We do not know what it is? Does anyone else know? We want to dig it out but are cautious as to what it is. It appears to be red and kind of waxy with a cement type scim on the top. Please see pics below.
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[Lime]

It is probably a "composition" floor.
A solid floor made with several materials that may be dampproof or have a bitumen liner underneath.
However some don't.

 

[stakk]

My thanks for your reply. Do you think any part of this flooring may contain asbestos? Had heard also you have to contact building regs now to make sure the replacement floor is adequate and up to standard. Is this correct?
Stakk

 

[Lime]

Why do you want to dig up the floor?

Asbestos (the white variety) was used nearly everywhere by some people at one time so anything is possible.
Blue asbestos was no longer used by the end of the 60s and brown asbestos by the end of the 70s.
Not every manufacturer or builder used it directly but it was often in other things.
Asbestos is a common compound found mixed with other material that is mined.
However I wouldn't assume the floor has any in it unless you have reason to think otherwise.
I refer you to the Asbestos Watchdog site:-

http://www.asbestoswatchdog.co.uk/residential/index.htm

Asbestos containing products can be found in over 3000 locations, many of which can be found in the domestic home. It is important to remember, however, that there are rarely instances when asbestos containing materials (ACMs) in domestic properties pose measurable risks to health.

They have pdf files that you can download and other useful info for you.



You do need to consult with the local building inspector if you intend to remove and replace this floor as building regulations apply.
If the property is listed you need to get permission also.

 

[Nemesis]

I was rather under the impression the Asbestos Watchdog site was a spot unreliable as not totally unbiased. Any material containing asbestos is still a hazarsd and should be treated with caution if disturnbed. A test can be carried out for a few pounds.

We had a similar plaster type floor, laid on top of a strange mix of sawdust with resin, although in our case it was yellow. Underneath were the original flagstones. I think such floors were common at one time to level out old flooring. I saw something very similar to yours asa skim at a National Trust property on Saturday.

If you are to totally dig up and relay a floor then it will have to comply with Building Regs. Is the entire floor in need of renewal or is this a thin skim layer on top of something else?

 

[stakk]

Hi thanks for replies and advice Lime and Nemesis.
The floor is very damp. The previous occupants had laid laminate flooring over the top in the hallway and the kitchen has tiles on the top. We have so far taken up the laminate and a few tiles in the kitchen. We ran a line across from the threshold of front and back kitchen doors and noticed that the floor sinks slightly somewhere near the middle of the two. We are considering laying tiles on the top and changing tiles in kitchen, but obviously we have to deal with the damp and level floors out. What to do? We are still thinking of the best approach. The red floor underneath the skim appears to be and inch and quarter thick.

 

[MdB]

but obviously we have to deal with the damp and level floors out. What to do? We are still thinking of the best approach.

One solution which will be recommended by lots of builders is to remove the old floor and to lay a new concrete floor with a damp proof membrane in it. Ignoring the fact that it destroys your old floor, it will give you a nice dry floor which I am sure you want. Unfortunately, you won't be removing the damp that is under the floor and this moisture will try to find a way out. The easiest way out is likely to be straight up your walls causing problems there. This is exactly what has happened in my house and I am having fun trying to fix it.

Do you know where the source of moisture is coming from to make your floor damp? What are the ground levels like outside the house in relation to the inside floor level? Can you do anything to improve this? Reading the damp FAQ is a good point to start on this issue.

 

[Lime]

I was rather under the impression the Asbestos Watchdog site was a spot unreliable as not totally unbiased. Any material containing asbestos is still a hazarsd and should be treated with caution if disturnbed. A test can be carried out for a few pounds.

The services they offer are untried by myself.
However the pdf files they have are sensible in my view.
Asbestos was all around us in the 60s (still is for many of us) and the risk has to be kept in proportion to every other risk we take.
Breathing in dust (any dust from any material) has never been sensible to do but many still do it today even with H&S all around us.
The road repairers directly outside my house now are using a cutter to make a trench across the road and clouds of dust envelope them.
Are any wearing masks?
No. Not one of them.
That is how it used to be with asbestos material.
Workers were often covered from head to toe with asbestos dust and took it all home.
It is a wonder that more did not die the terrible death associated with it.

Taking suitable precaution to minimise building work dust and wearing a mask will give a great deal of protection.
Unfortunately the same cannot be said of crossing the road as the risks of being killed are much higher than anything to do with asbestos.

 

[Nemesis]

It's surprising how many are now dying from asbestos realted illness who didn't work in the industry.

There are now around sixty teachers for example, who worked in schools with asbestsos. A headteacher in Carlisle has recently died from an asbestos related disease.

Pinning up children's work with drawing pins into walls containing asbestos has been cited as a danger.

I think we haven't recognised fully yet the long term dangers many were exposed to with this stuff, as illness is many years on from the exposure.

 

[NT]

I was rather under the impression the Asbestos Watchdog site was a spot unreliable as not totally unbiased.

Billions of pounds ride on the question of what is and is not a risk with asbestos. Consequently there is a veritable flood of biased information in the world. Every asbestos site is biased for one simple reason: even if it tries not to be, much of the data its working with is heavily biased.

Any material containing asbestos is still a hazarsd

I dont see any way that you could really support that one. It is only loose fibres that are any risk at all.


NT

 

[NT]

Asbestos fibre costs money, and I cant think of any reason to include it in a flooring composition.


NT

 

[chuckey]

We had a similar "red" screed on our flagstone floor, a neighbour of ours still has it. Next week I'll try and find out when it was laid. Mine was interesting stuff, about 1/2" thick. When you put a chisel under it, the whole sheet flexed right across the room, about 13'.
The floor had a couple of strips (6" wide") terminating in a rectangle where it had obviously been fixed. On lifting this rubbish a sorry sight was to be seen. Subsequent to this red stuff being laid, the fire was changed to a Baxi type with underfloor ventilation, and the "fixes?" we had seen was where the prats had decided to lay the under floor air pipes and as one was deemed to be too small, had laid a second, thus destroying about 4 sq m of the limestone flags with funny angular edges because all the pipes were laid at an angle to the axis of the room, why they could not have laid the second pipe ON TOP of the first one, to double the air flow ??? Would have saved a lot of time and effort too.
Frank