How to stain this dining table to a different colour?

[lizziecupcakes]

Hi all, probably not the right place go post this, but I thought people on this forum would have experience with this. I have zero experience!

I have an oak dining table. It is pure wood and super heavy. I got it from a charity shop and love it.

Only thing I don’t love is the colour. I want to stain it to the darker colour in the second photo I’ve provided (it’s a table from John Lewis that I love and can’t afford). I don’t know how to describe it - it’s a colonial brown colour with a hint or orange-gold. If you know it’s name, please let me know!

I will clean it, remove any staining and varnish, sand it down and then apply the new stain and varnish.

I’m stuck on the last part: applying the **new** stain and varnish.

Can my dining table take the stain colour I want? Will it come out how i expect?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks so much

 

[ThornhillMike]

Toby Newell's site Newell Woodworks will give you a lot of advice. Colour, as I have found, is a lot of trial and error!

 

[lizziecupcakes]

thank you!!!

 

[Kearn]

If it’s varnished, that’s not too bad. If it’s already stained, then that will have impregnated the timber, so removing existing colour isn’t so easy. Admittedly oak doesn’t penetrate too much, but still - the colour is in the wood, not on it.

I’d scrape with Bahco 625/665 initially to remove the surface coatings and get back to timber. Then you can see what’s what. I’d then trial a selection of stains directly onto the timber somewhere inconspicuous - the colour charts won’t be what the final finish is. Especially taking into account your already stained wood as a base.

These are the mylands colours, 3 coats, less will be lighter obviously.

I’d err on the lighter shade based on my experience of the selection I used. You can always go darker!

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Thanks so much for this.
I like the golden oak in the photo you sent, but my floors will be that colour soon!

 

[Cubist]

A few notes of caution if I may.

The tops of modern tables such as yours are frequently constructed using thin hardwood veneers - sometimes no more than 1.5mm thick - over a carcass of softer timber. As such it's possible when sanding or scraping the surface to cut through the veneer to expose the underlying carcass material. Typically this is a much softer and less dense wood which will absorb more stain or dye than the hardwood veneer can and thus produces a very unsightly scar. As there may be no way for you to determine the thickness of any veneer you should assume it to be very thin and remove as little of the surface material as possible and without using any kind of automated sander.

You should also be careful when using chemical strippers and should test the effects of these on small unobtrusive areas before committing to the larger job. Heat and steam guns should not be used at all; these can result in de-lamination of the veneer and again ruin the table.

If oils were used in the preparation of the tables surface before the final finish was applied there is a chance that any stain or dye you may choose will not be able to penetrate and take hold within the veneers and thus produce a poor finish.

Coincidentally the First First Lady and I purchased a nearly identical dining suite to that in your second photo. I won't say how long ago but the First First Lady still has it and it would now nearly qualify for antique status in its own right. If I remember rightly the design was referred to as American Colonial and the nearest colour of stain or dye commonly available is called Georgian Oak.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Wow thanks for this @Cubist . I’ve attached closer up photos of the dining table in case that’s helpful.

I absolutely love the American Colonial / Georgian Oak stain. The John Lewis table and chairs are just toooo expensive for me

 

[Cubist]

Well that's definitely oak but only an expert could say absolutely whether it's European or American. One thing you can be sure of is that it does not have a varnish or hard lacquer finish that can be scraped off easily without affecting the wood. Most likely, I think, is that its a wax/oil type finish that is sprayed on in the factory. The oil operates as a thinner for, and carrier of, the wax both of which dries quickly to the appearance you have there. It's quite resilient and will resist moisture provided it's not allowed to stand.

The trouble with this stuff is that it can be very difficult to thoroughly remove. Sandpaper will quickly clog and become useless. A cabinet scraper will only take the surface material whilst leaving any finish sitting in the deeper grain. Both run the risk of cutting through thin veneers. The best approach, assuming still that it's not solid wood throughout, would be a chemical based strategy that dissolves the wax to allow it be lifted off with a suitable cloth perhaps with aid of some wire wool. Liberon and Coloron manufacture and supply such Wax Removers alongside their ranges of wood dyes and other treatments.

If you are determined to do this though I would strongly advise that you use one of the hidden rails directly under the table top to test the success of the remover to see how effective it is and how best to apply it, and also to test the take up/absorption of your chosen stain or dye.

A couple of further things to make you aware of. Getting an even stain over large areas can be very difficult, and must be done quickly and completely - no tea breaks part way through, also make sure that have enough of the stain on hand to finish the job before you start. Getting that high gloss, glassy finish, you've seen on that John Lewis table would be far from easy for any amateur, tt may be an idea to consider a final wax finish over your chosen stain as it offers greater control.

 

[Kearn]

Getting an even stain over large areas can be very difficult, and must be done quickly and completely - no tea breaks part way through, also make sure that have enough of the stain on hand to finish the job before you start.

I forgot to mention that, old timber is variable in its thirst so even I did my bits, make absorbency = deeper colour. I was also less than precise at first, so some rubs of the rag carried more stain than the others = same result again!

In your case @lizziecupcakes if you’re removing surface, there will be a lack of uniformity so the stain will take better in spots than others deepening the colour.

your chosen stain as it offers greater control.

this is where I’ve ended up. Find a source for good quality mylands wax, and get a tinted version. Much more subtle and controllable.

 

[aockenden]

If you’re looking for a beautiful dark natural finish which is totally natural, non-toxic, environmentally sound and easy to use I can definitely recommend Van Dyke crystals. They’re made from walnut husks, you just dissolve in hot water, paint or brush it onto the bare sanded wood and then let it sit a couple mins and wipe it off. I used two heavy coats on our raw pine t-n-g ceiling boards and got a really rich dark finish. It’ll need to be sealed / stabilized with something like tung / linseed oil and beeswax (maybe dissolved in pure gum turpentine).

 

[fernicarry]

The fact that the table has separate sections around the edge of the top is a bit of a give away that its veneered. The edges may well be solid - check for end grain - but the majority of the surface won't be. Even the JLP one is made the same way and that's pretty much how its always been in the furniture game. As others have pointed out the veneer will be wafer thin.

I've had success sanding mid century teak pieces with an orbital whilst being extremely aware of how thin the ice I was skating on was but your table looks a bit too recent to get away with that.

 

[Cubist]

If you’re looking for a beautiful dark natural finish which is totally natural, non-toxic, environmentally sound and easy to use I can definitely recommend Van Dyke crystals. They’re made from walnut husks, you just dissolve in hot water, paint or brush it onto the bare sanded wood and then let it sit a couple mins and wipe it off. I used two heavy coats on our raw pine t-n-g ceiling boards and got a really rich dark finish. It’ll need to be sealed / stabilized with something like tung / linseed oil and beeswax (maybe dissolved in pure gum turpentine).

I learned about the use of walnut husks to produce wood dye/stain some years ago and, having a 100+ year old Walnut tree in residence on the property I was looking forward to perhaps giving it a go. However, I had totally overlooked that our burgeoning squirrel population has a fondness for the fruit and the Spring sees an invasion of these vandals that has it stripped within weeks. Over the last 15 years I've only managed to harvest just TWO nuts! However, I have also significantly depleted the local squirrel population with the aid of a rifle and my pet below.

.

 

[Cubist]

BTW he's one of a pair born in the Yew trees behind the house. This ones called Twoo and will often be found perched on that rail in the early evenings with his sibling. At the time I was trying to get a pic of them both but the other one fell off - his name should be obvious.

 

[aockenden]

I learned about the use of walnut husks to produce wood dye/stain some years ago and, having a 100+ year old Walnut tree in residence on the property I was looking forward to perhaps giving it a go. However, I had totally overlooked that our burgeoning squirrel population has a fondness for the fruit and the Spring sees an invasion of these vandals that has it stripped within weeks. Over the last 15 years I've only managed to harvest just TWO nuts! However, I have also significantly depleted the local squirrel population with the aid of a rifle and my pet below.

.View attachment 14498

Lol you have a pet owl? Beautiful bird. Yeah I hadn’t heard about Van Dyke crystals until seeing another natural building / reno couple use it on a YouTube vid.

 

[mardinor]

You will never achieve the look you want, sorry.

Sell the oak table and buy an antique mahogany or rosewood one from a local auction house. Your taste is impeccable, but luckily for you entirely out of fashion. They can literally not give away these beautiful dark wood tables these days.

 

[Cubist]

You will never achieve the look you want, sorry.

Sell the oak table and buy an antique mahogany or rosewood one from a local auction house. Your taste is impeccable, but luckily for you entirely out of fashion. They can literally not give away these beautiful dark wood tables these days.

Admitted it wouldn't be easy and there would be much preparation work before a new colour is applied but... Never say dye!

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Thanks everyone, so it looks like it is veneered wood grrrr. I learnt a lot from you all, thank you. Rather than damaging it (which is likely because I am a newbie!), we will use it until we find the Georgian oak table of our dreams, then we will sell this on. I appreciate everyone replying.

 

[Cubist]

A quick heads up then. In the meantime you could perhaps develop your furniture finish restoration experience by buying some small piece from a junk shop, it'll help to pass some time between other projects at least.

Oh, and by the way, that American Colonial dining suite - is All veneers over a composite/compressed wood base and after my daughter finally stopped using it as a writing pad - we didn't catch her in time - it ended up being painted by the First First Lady but that's not why she's the First First Lady.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

haha thanks!
I don't think I could fork out over £2k on a dining table, personally.
Yep, I think i'll have to test things on smaller junk items.
I think I can sorta tell if it's veneer being used, but how do I spot pure wood?

 

[lizziecupcakes]

This is the edge/side of my current table