Help please. In process of purchasing a cottage

[Newbytocottages]

Hi,
We're in thr process of purchasing a cottage c1880/1890. It has an extension to the rear c1970. Just been round it with a builder and the cottage has damp walls (internally). The walls are thick and solid, stone or brick not sure as there is render which looks in fair condition but the vendor has painted white for sale purposes.
I'm very nervous about the potential nightmare the damp may cause in terms of remedy and cost. The internal walls are mostly studded as when I knock on them they sound hollow. A friend says old buildings need to breath and not be stifled with sealants on walls. The flooring is solid so I guess they began life as wood and were then concreted but I don't know for sure. Feeling rather daunted by all of the unknown. Can anyone offer suggestions and advice please I could attach the link to the property on rightmove if that's any use?

 

[a twig]

Images are always useful - resolving damp can be relatively cheap if you are a DIY person but can get hideously expensive if using trades.

Your friend is right - there is a handy primer thread here:

I’ve just bought an old house and it’s damp, help!

So, many people have suggested over the years this should just be called the “old damp house forum” So I thought I should start a basic guide to tackling damp in a period property that hopefully the learned members of this parish can add to, and we can then point others to in the future...

www.periodproperty.co.uk

 

[Newbytocottages]

Thank you very much for the speedy reply with great link and advice. The builder yesterday upon viewing the house was talking about having a company in to drill and inject the wall but surely that’s purely for damp prevention rather than treatment?
I’ve just spoken to a friend that owns a cottage and he has reiterated what I’ve already heard that cottages need to breath and not be stifled by render.

 

[aockenden]

Render can be cement or lime. Lime render won’t stifle an old building. Cement render will.

You should find another builder. This one isn’t a friend to old properties if he’s recommending chemical injection damp proofing on a thick walled property.

 

[Lacan07]

Thank you very much for the speedy reply with great link and advice. The builder yesterday upon viewing the house was talking about having a company in to drill and inject the wall but surely that’s purely for damp prevention rather than treatment?
I’ve just spoken to a friend that owns a cottage and he has reiterated what I’ve already heard that cottages need to breath and not be stifled by render.

Are there actually visible signs of damp internally?

The cost of letting the house breathe will depend on how big the house is, whether it's cement render on the outside (more likely), whether the internal walls are gypsum plastered and modern paint, and whether the floors are retro fitted cement / screed.

People often paint a house in view of a sale so not necessarily a sign of deception.

 

[a twig]

Seconding @aockenden ’s motion - find another builder if the one you have is recommending damp injections as a remedy without any sort of proper investigation

 

[Cubist]

Essential rules for Period Home/Cottage hunting/acquisition: -

• If you haven't already you and your partner must acquire, always wear and be ready to use a good pair of running shoes.
  • Nikes, Puma, et al will do but definitely not Trump Sneakers - the latter only take you 'Toward' the Property Developer/Estate Agent.
• Remove all rose tinted glasses to avoid being suckered in by the appearance of the place.
  • Primrose paths, rose covered porches, thatched roofs, comfy arbours can be found aplenty but these are just the sparkly bits that divert your attention and pull on your desires and wishes while relaxing your grip on your bank account.
• Learn the custom and practice - be respectful of, and fear, Conservation Officers but treat Estate Agents in the same way an Exorcist treats a Possessed. ALL builders should unconditionally be regarded with deep suspicion as should Surveyors/Structural Engineers
• Learn the language, technical terms and deceits employed by any/all of the above to avoid being Blinded with Science or persuaded by Mendacious Optimism and Vanity Stoking.
• Be ready for disappointment and some compromise - many of us come down to acceptance of some items on the Cons list (mine was a pub within easy walking distance; the First Lady is still insisting I have to build that)

There are many other such rules - coo could be an idea here for an Idiots Guide book - but you've apparently learned the first lesson; to talk to others that have already Read the Book, Seen the Movie and Bought the T Shirt.

As to the specific issue of Damp observed in the place you are looking at. If you haven't already decided to exercise your Nikes then you will need to ascertain, or get a good indication of, the source of the moisture as this will give you a better indication of the corrective action needed and how much it may cost. It may be rising damp from the ground below the house, or it could be penetrating damp coming through the walls from the surrounding land, or it may be due to faulty gutters and other rain management goods, a leaky roof or chimney, faults in the plumbing or drainage, etc. but the one cause that gets overlooked time and time again is YOU! Your need to breathe, eat, drink bathe and be warm all produce moisture that can and will be absorbed into the fabric of the property. Some of these things are easy to manage BUT you may never be able to fully eradicate the problem.

You would do well to listen to all the advice offered by the contributors above - they already have the T shirts too.

 

[LadyArowana]

The mention of something being painted “for sale purposes” I find worrying as other cosmetic fixes may have been done to hide issues. Good advice above already, if you don’t want to share the actual listing I suggest screenshots of all the pictures to be shared here for further evaluation, it may show something which can be commented on, it may not, but can’t hurt.

 

[Newbytocottages]

Thanks for your comments. I’ve added a few pictures.

 

[paulc]

First thought is the ground levels are too high surrounding the property. If there is a DPC, and it is just below the door threshold, the hard paving needs cutting back. The raised beds either side of the door are also of concern - If the soil is in contact with the walls, there will be penetrating damp on the inside. Even if there is a DPM up against the wall, air flow will be compromised, so you'll still end up with damp problems inside.
That ivy could also be hiding problems or storing some up for the future.

 

[Cubist]

The ivy or wisteria climbing the face may also be a problem. Roots can secure themselves in the mortar and can, if not properly maintained, begin to disrupt the brickwork.

Oops, missed Pauls last thought, but a confirmatory echo is sometimes useful.

 

[Newbytocottages]

First thought is the ground levels are too high surrounding the property. If there is a DPC, and it is just below the door threshold, the hard paving needs cutting back. The raised beds either side of the door are also of concern - If the soil is in contact with the walls, there will be penetrating damp on the inside. Even if there is a DPM up against the wall, air flow will be compromised, so you'll still end up with damp problems inside.
That ivy could also be hiding problems or storing some up for the future.

 

[Newbytocottages]

Thank you
Yes the cottage is lower than ground level.
Another builder has been to look and would remove the foliage all around the building, the Ivy needs to go as do the ground planters. We want to replace the slabs with gravel and the builder suggested Dutch style drainage next to the cottage.
The render is also going and being replaced once the walls have dried out. The floor is being replaced with a DPC. Once all is stripped and replaced then with good ventilation we hope the damp will stay away.

 

[Kearn]

Thank you
Yes the cottage is lower than ground level.
Another builder has been to look and would remove the foliage all around the building, the Ivy needs to go as do the ground planters. We want to replace the slabs with gravel and the builder suggested Dutch style drainage next to the cottage.
The render is also going and being replaced once the walls have dried out. The floor is being replaced with a DPC. Once all is stripped and replaced then with good ventilation we hope the damp will stay away.

If it’s an old building, you do not need to a dpc. Trying to retrofit one is expensive, intrusive and pointless.

Apart from the triffids growing up the building, the proximity of those Leylandi would worry me. The roots travel, and those haven’t been well maintained, but just recently cut back - you can tell from the lack of green growth.

 

[Eric56]

My property was covered in a climbing clematis. It looked good to many.
When I received the keys I fetched my loppers en route. I began cutting the base before I even opened the front door!
When all pulled back it revealed a lot of original lime mortar but also a real patchwork of cement which had been applied over the years.
Knowing what I know now I would:

Cut the ivy back day one reveal the walls
Invest in spade barrow and gloves and dig out any soil touching the walls.
Make sure ground level is LOWER than floor levels
Dont start any building work at all
Move in and live there.
Ventilate like crazy with open windows
Buy a couple of Meaco dehumidifiers
order Hygrometers from Amazon and put them in every room
Play with test and the service the CH system asap.

 

[Flyfisher]

Thank you
Yes the cottage is lower than ground level.
Another builder has been to look and would remove the foliage all around the building, the Ivy needs to go as do the ground planters. We want to replace the slabs with gravel and the builder suggested Dutch style drainage next to the cottage.
The render is also going and being replaced once the walls have dried out. The floor is being replaced with a DPC. Once all is stripped and replaced then with good ventilation we hope the damp will stay away.

This new builder sounds more promising than the first one you mentioned!

Too-high ground levels are a common problem with older properties. The good news is that it's a known problem with known and proven solutions (good news in the sense of not stumbling around trying all manner of random things to see if anything works). Replacing slabs with gravel should also help, though don't underestimate the capacity of gravel to hold water, even though it's certainly better for drainage than paving slabs, so reducing the ground level is still important.

Personally, I wouldn't rush to install a DPC. Your point about 'good ventilation' is bang on the money but don't expect it solve damp within the walls/floor particularly fast. An often quoted figure in these here parts is that a damp wall can take around one month per inch to dry out, ie a 9-inch thick solid wall that has been standing in damp-inducing conditions for years might easily take 9 months to readjust to its new environment when improvment works have been completed.

I'd endorse Eric56's post above, ie do the obvious basic stuff first (ground levels, foiliage removal, checking for guttering leaks etc), then just 'live and learn' for at least a year - you'll learn how the house and its environment 'works' and also the house will gradually find its new equilibrium with the basic changes and your lifestyle. Plus, you've rightly mentioned 'good ventilation', which can solve all manner of damp-related issues without the expense and disruption of installing a DPC.

Also, based on my own experience, 'good ventilation' doesn't necessarily mean wide-open windows all year round. I think of it as being averaged over a year. In the summer months, our windows and doors are always wide open, in the spring and autumn they are generally wide open during the warmish days but closed at night (mostly) when we have the heating on and more often closed than open in the coldest months. So indoor winter humidity levels will likely be a bit higher than summer levels but with adequate average ventilation, damp will not accumulate. Buildings react slowly.

Houses don't suddenly have a damp problem because the gutters start leaking or the outside ground level is raised too high with paving (for example) - but such changes in conditions will cause a change in the environment for the worse and the gradual build up of problems will begin. Left for many years, the effects eventually manifest themselves (in this case, damp problems), at which point many people start to panic and look for a quick fix and of course there are no end to 'snake oil' solutions out there. Alternatively, reverse the basic problems and give the house time to heal itself while you get on with living your life. You'll learn to love your new house and it will learn to love you.

 

[Newbytocottages]

My property was covered in a climbing clematis. It looked good to many.
When I received the keys I fetched my loppers en route. I began cutting the base before I even opened the front door!
When all pulled back it revealed a lot of original lime mortar but also a real patchwork of cement which had been applied over the years.
Knowing what I know now I would:

Cut the ivy back day one reveal the walls
Invest in spade barrow and gloves and dig out any soil touching the walls.
Make sure ground level is LOWER than floor levels
Dont start any building work at all
Move in and live there.
Ventilate like crazy with open windows
Buy a couple of Meaco dehumidifiers
order Hygrometers from Amazon and put them in every room
Play with test and the service the CH system asap.

Thank you much appreciated

 

[Newbytocottages]

This new builder sounds more promising than the first one you mentioned!

Too-high ground levels are a common problem with older properties. The good news is that it's a known problem with known and proven solutions (good news in the sense of not stumbling around trying all manner of random things to see if anything works). Replacing slabs with gravel should also help, though don't underestimate the capacity of gravel to hold water, even though it's certainly better for drainage than paving slabs, so reducing the ground level is still important.

Personally, I wouldn't rush to install a DPC. Your point about 'good ventilation' is bang on the money but don't expect it solve damp within the walls/floor particularly fast. An often quoted figure in these here parts is that a damp wall can take around one month per inch to dry out, ie a 9-inch thick solid wall that has been standing in damp-inducing conditions for years might easily take 9 months to readjust to its new environment when improvment works have been completed.

I'd endorse Eric56's post above, ie do the obvious basic stuff first (ground levels, foiliage removal, checking for guttering leaks etc), then just 'live and learn' for at least a year - you'll learn how the house and its environment 'works' and also the house will gradually find its new equilibrium with the basic changes and your lifestyle. Plus, you've rightly mentioned 'good ventilation', which can solve all manner of damp-related issues without the expense and disruption of installing a DPC.

Also, based on my own experience, 'good ventilation' doesn't necessarily mean wide-open windows all year round. I think of it as being averaged over a year. In the summer months, our windows and doors are always wide open, in the spring and autumn they are generally wide open during the warmish days but closed at night (mostly) when we have the heating on and more often closed than open in the coldest months. So indoor winter humidity levels will likely be a bit higher than summer levels but with adequate average ventilation, damp will not accumulate. Buildings react slowly.

Houses don't suddenly have a damp problem because the gutters start leaking or the outside ground level is raised too high with paving (for example) - but such changes in conditions will cause a change in the environment for the worse and the gradual build up of problems will begin. Left for many years, the effects eventually manifest themselves (in this case, damp problems), at which point many people start to panic and look for a quick fix and of course there are no end to 'snake oil' solutions out there. Alternatively, reverse the basic problems and give the house time to heal itself while you get on with living your life. You'll learn to love your new house and it will learn to love you.

Fabulous piece of advice, thank you

 

[Newbytocottages]

Thank you much appreciated

Thanks for all of the advice, this is certainly a very interesting topic for a bewby

 

[Newbytocottages]

If it’s an old building, you do not need to a dpc. Trying to retrofit one is expensive, intrusive and pointless.

Apart from the triffids growing up the building, the proximity of those Leylandi would worry me. The roots travel, and those haven’t been well maintained, but just recently cut back - you can tell from the lack of green growth.

Thank you for your help and advice