any help dating our house

Hello again
I've been threatening for a while now to put up some more pictures of our semi in Swansea. We know it is pre-1910, and the previous owner told us it was built in 1897. However it doesn't show up in the survey maps of 1900, so I'm doubtful.
It's not really that important, but it would be nice to know if we are late Victorian or not.
I know its a long shot, but was hoping someone might be able to look at these pictures and see something that would help with the dates..maybe the majolica for instance. I think a lot of the stuff is pretty standard fare for the era but we're quite lucky that a lot seems to be original and in pretty good nick.
We take no responsibility for the colour scheme!

the house from outside:


faux graining on stairs



corbels and cornice


wooden detail above bay:


lincrusta/plaster ceiling in front room


front door glass:


stairs and tiles



mural in entrance: any ideas how to protect this would be great (one on each side) :




majollica tiles in entrance:





any other tips or tidbits of information would be good too (like suggested new colour schemes)! Thanks in advance!

Whaaaaat? How did all that survive??? Amazing stuff.

Have you been to the Swansea library and asked the archivist if they have any information, also wouldn't it be on the house deeds?

It is a stunning place l just love those tiles

Longish story with the paperwork - The library is the next step - nothing on the deeds as the bank didn't have them (everythings electronic now). Possibly the previous owner managed to get them (the purchase was not a pleasant experience). The title helps us a bit and got me to knowing that it should show up as part of an estate that was sold off in 1919.
One annoying problem is the street name changes through time and it's on a crossroad, so I have trouble finding it in census data. I don't even know what street number it was or which of the streets it was on. Also the earliest owner (aside from the estate) we can find was a Jones (bought it in the auction above) but as you can imagine it's not easy pinning that surname down in Wales!
Anyway, the fact it was part of this estate gives us hope there will be some record of its creation in the library. Will get there in due course, but in the meantime anything useful I can gather from the photos above would be very helpful. Plus it's a nice way to introduce our house to you all!

plasticpigeon said:

Whaaaaat? How did all that survive??? Amazing stuff.

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Quite agree! Glad it is in safe hands!

To my untutored eye, I would have guessed early 1900s, although there are a couple of features that seem older. I would bet there are a stack of features there that would absolutely pin-point a date to a suitable expert!

Really stunning house, wow. How fabulous those details are, and how nice to see them intact! I love that era and find it much prettier than 1860s /70s stuff, it's a bit more restrained, and the proportions of things altogether more elegant. I'm going for 1905 ish but am really no expert, but there are a couple of details suggesting Edwardian not Viccy - one being the slightly Adamesque swagging in the cornice and another being the styling of the windows.

Edwardian decoration is really fun. It harked back to the styles the Georgians liked and more classical detailing than is usually seen in Viccy furnishings and fittings; they revived Sheraton style but added in very pretty, more complicated detailing that reflects the advancements made in production techniques. I bought these chairs for my dining room - so typical of the period: http://dartington-antiques.co.uk/mag.asp?ID=16

If you have a look at Little Greene there are lots of lovely things, I'd want this paper somewhere:
http://www.littlegreene.com/champagne

I'd want a dark red dining room, though that is a bit Victorian, and a light and pretty sitting room with lots of soft Wedgwoody blue and gold or soft sea green and gold. Windows would have had swags and tails, and floors Persian rugs. Flower prints were smaller but they were used profusely, as was lace and velvet, damask and chintz. You've also got all the art nouveau like in your tiles to pick from, as well as the lovely medieval whimsy of the Morris stuff -so you're spoiled for choice!

Nice page here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/homes/design/period_edwardian.shtml

Thanks for the decorating ideas - we had already spotted your lovely red dining room + chandelier and would like something along those lines. It's currently bright green! I know we'll have a ball decorating, thankfully the styles you mention are right up our street.

worms said:

plasticpigeon said:

Whaaaaat? How did all that survive??? Amazing stuff.

Click to expand...

Quite agree! Glad it is in safe hands!

To my untutored eye, I would have guessed early 1900s, although there are a couple of features that seem older. I would bet there are a stack of features there that would absolutely pin-point a date to a suitable expert!

Click to expand...

quite safe indeed! I can only imagine that this house went through a long period of being extremely unfashionable!
It hasn't escaped modernity entirely however; a few windows have been upvc'd but thankfully a lot of the sashes upstairs are still there, as well as the ones on the front. We have a tiny upvc conservatory too which seems to have replaced a wooden one.
If I could wave the magic wand of the 21st century on anything however, it would be the kitchen. Still, we have plenty to plan!

When we had the building survey done, the surveyor suggested that it was good enough to be listed, and I think once we have brought a few things up to scratch - like the kitchen - it would be nice to try and protect what is there by going down that route. I know people argue that it knocks value from the house, but if it puts off developers or people looking for 'nice clean lines', then so be it, as far as I'm concerned!

worms said:

To my untutored eye, I would have guessed early 1900s

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I'd certainly go along with that (including, also in my case, the untutored bit). Borderline Victorian/Edwardian, I'd hazard, so that suggests sometime in the first decade of the 1900s.

What a gem!

Definitely get it listed if you can! We did here and I don't regret it!

Thanks for the nice compliment regarding dining room. You can get away with strong colours when they aren't in rooms you spend all your time in.

The only problem with going down the period decorating route is cost. Much cheaper to go for Ikea!

Lovely, lovely place. As for a date - the problem is, styles can be local, and what's fashionable in say London may take a few more years to reach the provinces. However, compared to my house (built in 1899 in deepest Shropshire) I think your place is just a little newer. Victoria died in 1901, I'd place your house as 1902-1910, so Edwardian. But - do compare your house to others in the area, that will give you more clues. It might also be worth sending pictures of your tiles to the Jackfield Tile Museum at Ironbridge to ask for their opinion on a date.

It's such a pain that you don't get given the deeds any more, so much history will be lost. I don't have the originals for this place, but I do have a transcript of the original that for reasons unknown was taken in 1940, which has given me loads of information.

Regarding the original address, it's entirely possible that it didn't have a number. My house was just "The Birches" - the Post Office gave the houses in our street numbers much later.

What a lovely house with all its correct details--you are lucky! The majolica, hall floor and stained glass window give good guidelines for colours available to you!

Craig and Rose paints do a very good range of historic colours, all available at B&Q.

I agree that it was probably built somewhere around 1900-5 .

Was the kitchen area still in its original state?

Good luck with the research!

What a lovely house! I agree about a date of early 20thC. I used to own a house in Bristol which was built in 1901 and your looks just slightly more Edwardian - the exterior detailing and the little banister mouldings above the window for example

As for protecting your paintings, they seem to have done well so far but they could so easily get damaged during building works. You could cover them over with a rather larger sheet of clear acrylic, spaced away from the painting and with free airflow behind it to avoid condensation. That would protect it from physical damage but it would not look particularly beautiful so maybe you would choose to have it as a temporary measure to be removed once there is no building work going on

:shock: GORGEOUS. Love the woodstaining.

Much of the architecture still says 1895 to me. BUT, the tiles in the porch show an Art Nouveau influence. That would indeed push it into Edwardian.

Lovely house.

I wouldn't be put off by the house not appearing in the 1900 ordinance survey map.
3 years is no time at all. It all depends on when the last survey for that particular area was carried out.
Even today the latest maps are a conglomerate of previous surveys.
No ordinance survey map will be totally up-to-date because change happens all the time and surveys take time to do.

livias said:

As for protecting your paintings, they seem to have done well so far but they could so easily get damaged during building works. You could cover them over with a rather larger sheet of clear acrylic, spaced away from the painting and with free airflow behind it to avoid condensation. That would protect it from physical damage but it would not look particularly beautiful so maybe you would choose to have it as a temporary measure to be removed once there is no building work going on

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That seems a good suggestion - acrylic or glass, raised clear of the surface of the mural. My only additional concern might be whether the sun shines directly on to the mural. If it does, then the temperature behind the clear sheet might rise to a possibly deleterious level.

Fabulous place, very lucky that all those details survive. I particularly like the tiles, especially the frieze. Might be worth contacting this person with some pictures of that and a note about the house. http://www.hansvanlemmen.co.uk/

Thank you all for you very kind comments! Some very useful suggestions amongst them as well - we pored over the tiles last night looking for colours we liked. Amazing what you find when you look more closely - there's a lovely deep green in there I hadn't spotted before. I've written to both the tile people mentioned, fingers crossed we get something interesting back or perhaps they'll see some interest in them.

As for the kitchen, it's a 1970s formica top job! "Dilapidated" as the surveyor described it, but functional enough for now.

One more picture while I'm here- it hadn't uploaded when I posted last - the glass in the door leading to the entrance. No idea who could tell us about this though



the front entrance is north facing, so the murals are pretty safe from sunlight. I was thinking along the lines of something to stop the cracking.
I'll keep this thread up to date with anything we find out. Thanks again, it is very nice to have such positive feedback. I think a few of our friends think the house is a bit wierd, it's good to know it isn't just us that appreciate it!

What a fantastic place!

I wouldn't place too much store by maps. In our area I've found houses still marked that had been demolished 50 years earlier, and houses not marked even though built some years previously.
I sometimes suspect that "survey" just meant taking one's predecessor's map and doing a cursory trip round to mark a few obvious changes, then home for tea.

oooo that glass door is spooky! Hard to see if the etched figure is a woman dressed in the fashion of the time, or like a church brass!!!

I don't think the house is weird, it's a time warp----- formica kitchen and all!!