Gully cover

I've had to dig a gully at the back of my house, because the internal floor level is so much lower than the external level. The back of the house borders on the churchyard.
Today the church warden came to have a polite word with me, about whether or not I am planning to fill in that gully, because they are worried about children hurting themselves by falling into it. They've put cones up and everything. I would have thought children might summon the intelligence not to fall into it, but it seems people don't credit children with much intelligence these days.
It was always my intention to cover it over, I just hadn't got around to it. I can't fill it in with gravel, the dpc is way down there.
Here's a pic:

Clearly, the options are:
1. Some sort of reclaimed ornamental church grating.
2. Have the local forge make me something to my specification.
3. Some sort of plastic off-the-shelf thingy.

I'm assuming such thing would have to be metal, to take the weight of said children, should they choose to jump on it.
It would have to be 300mm wide, and some 10m long. There's no plastic thing on the market that would do, is there? If I go for church grating, or have the local forge make me something, it won't rot away within two years, will it?

Children not allowed to assess and take risks will never learn to join motorway traffic when they grow up! As for a cover, won't it be rather difficult to fix something that won't tip into the gully when stood upon? Surely a simple low fence would be better.

You might be able to pick up some end of stock cast iron chanel grating (e.g. cast iron grate) , coupled with a simple angle iron frame may scratch the church wardens' itch?

In a similar vein: http://www.longbottomfoundry.co.uk/gutters-pipes-fittings.htm

I suggest a series of rough wooden stakes pushed into it with pointy ends upwards. That should ward off the children, but if one does become impaled it will at least learn not no go there again.

How will you fix the grating to your wall? You presumably don't want to breach your new insulation with metal bolts?

Looks good as it is to me!

Absolutely ridiculous. What a mad mad world it is.

I think anything you have made upat the smith's is likely to be hundreds if not a thousand or more, I'd go for a low planting scheme like a spiky berberis hedge - and if he complains about the spikes potentially prickling them point out that they might, equally, dash their brains out on the flagstones of his church or be crushed by a falling gravestone.

http://www.gardenoasis.co.uk/berberis-hedging-plants-p-475.html

Pathetic.

What he needs to pay you to instal - and it will be more difficult as it was not pre-planned - is some form of linear grating such as one sees over footpath drains. Can't find what I want on the web... Yes, I can... it's called channel grating...
http://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-flodrain-channel-drain-grate-black-1m/95012?kpid=95012&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=CNjxzoL55bgCFXMRtAod_kAAGA
but it would need a linear support.

Or, just cover it in with something solid, sloped away from the house. Don't suppose you need regular access... in fact a solid cover might be better as it would repel the church's leaves and grass cuttings ?

Or, just some common sense, like, leave it alone.

Ivor

JoceAndChris said:

Absolutely ridiculous. What a mad mad world it is.

I think anything you have made upat the smith's is likely to be hundreds if not a thousand or more, I'd go for a low planting scheme like a spiky berberis hedge - and if he complains about the spikes potentially prickling them point out that they might, equally, dash their brains out on the flagstones of his church or be crushed by a falling gravestone.

http://www.gardenoasis.co.uk/berberis-hedging-plants-p-475.html

Click to expand...

Noooo . . . don't mention toppling gravestones: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7299065/Scores-of-headstones-felled-for-health-and-safety-reasons.html :roll:

But I love the idea of a low hedge. Box might also be suitable and doesn't require too much maintenance. However, any amount of maintenance might make it a non-starter for the Church. No harm in discussing it though.

JoceAndChris said:

I'd go for a low planting scheme like a spiky berberis hedge - and if he complains about the spikes potentially prickling them point out that they might, equally, dash their brains out on the flagstones of his church or be crushed by a falling gravestone.

Click to expand...

I'm glad to see another vote for the pointy spikes! However if you really feel it needs to be covered, how about putting some bricks or other supports in and laying one of these industrial safety gratings over the top? http://www.midgrid.co.uk/Planking.html The mass produced sort didn't seem too expensive ( a different US site had prices ), and there were quite a few "off the shelf" sizes available.

Some workable suggestions there, thank you. Yes it may seem a bit over the top, but I've no wish to fall out with the church, they were good enough to raise no objection to my digging the gully in the first place, so I want to keep things sweet.
The fence idea is interesting, but I would worry about creating a structure on land which is not mine. It would have to be quite tall to prevent anybody from climbing over it and getting even more stuck in the gully. I consider I've been lucky so far to get away with the gully and have nobody complain, I don't want to push my luck!
The hedge idea is very interesting, I hadn't thought of that. It's the council who own and maintain the land (it's no longer consecrated ground). A couple of chaps come every couple of weeks to cut the grass. I wonder whether they would object to an extra hedge to trim. Then again, I suppose the worst they could do is object, and I'd have to take it out again. It means more leaves to clean out of the gully though.
Ivor your idea of a solid cover is interesting. Made out of what though? I want the air to circulate underneath, as it will be well above the dpc.
Thanks Flyfisher for the Longbottoms link, there are options there, I'll ask them for a price. The Screwfix grating would be too narrow, but LadyA, that stuff would do the job and isn't expensive. Not pretty. Perhaps better sprayed black.
As for the issue of supporting the house side of any grating, Keith and worms, I reckon either attach some angle iron or brackets to the wall - there's no insulation on the lower storey, it would be drilled straight through the render into the bricks, which isn't ideal, but possible - or small concrete pads in the bottom of the gully supporting upright legs. Then I'd bolt it down to the brick wall of the gully, hopefully making it tricky to steal for scrap. I'd also need cut-outs for the three downpipes, and an opening flap to allow me to clean out the drain that the downpipes all drain into.

Zebra said:

The hedge idea is very interesting, I hadn't thought of that. It's the council who own and maintain the land (it's no longer consecrated ground). A couple of chaps come every couple of weeks to cut the grass. I wonder whether they would object to an extra hedge to trim. Then again, I suppose the worst they could do is object, and I'd have to take it out again. It means more leaves to clean out of the gully though.

Click to expand...

We have some box hedge and it's very low maintenance. We clip it once a year and it doesn't seem to drop leaves. That's about the extent of my gardening knowledge but others may be able to comment.

The council maintenance thing is interesting. My bet is that it's just a grass-cutting contact and hedge maintenance may incur additional cost for the council, in which case they may object.

On the other hand, if you're prepared to trim the hedge once a year then you might get away with not having to tell them at all.

Frustrating when all you're trying to do is do the right thing!

A metal fence, with suitable supports going down into the ground, could be curved up and over towards the house almost touching the wall which would avoid having to fix anything to your wall, would prevent anyone hopping over it and into the gully.... and ...probably cost a fortune!

If the council maintains it, then it's a closed churchyard. I would check with the council that they are happy with whatever you plan.

Why not fill it with 20mm shingle? The water will still percolate through, and it won't need a lot of maintenance.

Keith B, I like it!
KeithJ, I reckon I'm best off not saying a thing to the council. If I start raising the issue, they might say I shouldn't have dug the gully at all, which has been there about 18 months now with nobody saying a thing. Why get myself in trouble?!
I'm interested you mention the shingle idea though. I had thought that covering the damp proof course, which is way down in the hole on both the old building and the new extension, would be a bad idea. I'd be very interested to know what people think about this.
Thanks

IF (definite IF) you use 20mm shingle and line the gully so that earth can't flow in, then the water will run down past the shingle and away, almost as if the shingle weren't there. I suspect others will have opinions on that...

My house is surrounded by a French drain, which is just a trench lined with a permeable membrane and filled with shingle. It helped solve our damp problems. Removing the concrete from the walls was the main fix.

As a former Diocesan Surveyor, I have to wonder whether Zebra also got a faculty to dig up consecrated ground? :shock:

We had a discussion with one DAC member about our French drain on the damp side of the church. He was "minded" not to agree. We told him not to worry: we'd dig a series of graves along the wall.

We got our faculty.

I wonder if the strip against Zebra's wall was consecrated - would there not be a boundary strip?

As I said, it's no longer consecrated ground. They deconsecrated it and moved all the headstones to a new site some few years ago.
Keith, when you say line the gully so that the earth can't flow in, it already has a brick retaining wall holding the soil away. Do you mean line the top? The top is the only place dirt could get in, and of course it would, wouldn't it, over the years.Grass will grow over it and soil will get in.

If it's brick both sides, then you don't need the liner.

Yes, earth will very slowly percolate in - but not a lot. Grass up to the edges seems to work for us, where there isn't a natural edging. We've not had any weeds grow in it over the three years it's been in place. The grass has (so far) not shown any inclination to grow over the stones.